Page 1 of 2

Plug and "Pro"?

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:55 am
by ByteHeaven
Just wondering...

I just updated the plug and noticed new sync option.. first thought NICE :) (currently using SVN installed on the plug, but cannot ofc access that through mobile phone etc).

Well.. then noticed new "pro" option and limitation without it to 250Mb (completely useless)? (and with pro to 50Gb?)

So 2 things:
- I bought the plug and software with it, but am now treated as "free user" (no pro for plug owners, who have bought the plug from you?). Did you consider at all that those plugs do not live forever (maybe couple of years) and these kind of things affect to decision, do I buy next one from you, or something else (no, not gonna live anymore without a plug server :) Thanks for that, it has made my life much easier).
- Why the lame size limitation at all with "pro"? It could be unlimited (limit would be the hard-drive you put in). At least, there should be option to choose the size limit, with a warning, that you could run a lot of trouble if you do not understand what "unlimited" means with networks.. I assume that is the reason you have decided to limit that?

And sorry, I do not mean to be negative :) Software and plug are brilliant products. And I can understand that you want to have income, but have you considered to make some of free features (for downloaded SW) limited, then have the pro update (and possible app market update for apps) for free users (like "update all to pro XX$ / year / XXX$ lifetime" and "update app X to pro X$" (like less money than full pro upgrade) and then the choice "buy the plug with unlimited pro version in it" (witch means it's a re-buy for a new plug, if it dies after warranty time ;)) I do not think any electronics do live too long ;)

Just as now it feels like a rip-off. First buy a plug, then notice after a short while that new features would require more money..

Re: Plug and "Pro"?

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:17 pm
by madhan
Thanks for your comments:

TonidoPlug Sync gives you 2 GB of sync not 250 MB. Please upgrade to 2.33 if you haven't already. So there is already separation between someone who buys our hardware and someone who just downloads our software.

As far as not providing Unlimited Sync, Please note that we already are giving away unlimited remote access free with the plug. We give away WebsharePro with the plug, so everything is already there except for unlimited sync.

The reason we don't provide unlimited sync is because sync takes up way more bandwidth. if you install a Sync client it is constantly synching using up a lot of bandwidth, so if you had unlimited sync, that would take up a lot of bandwidth which makes our profit margins disappear. I hope you appreciate and understand that.

2 GB of free sync is definitely not useless unless you are thinking of syncing movies and media and is definitely a standard among all other competing sync products.

For clarity: Here's the product comparison table:

Re: Plug and "Pro"?

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:41 pm
by ByteHeaven
First, sorry the information about 2Gb was not in Pro page (where it says 250Mb). But still... compared to live-drive, google-fs, dropbox etc. that size is quite small, specially when it is not on your NAS system and backed up by you (if my hard drive fails its tough luck). So basically it is only a really nice method to have file server on your home... (no need for manual down- and uploads), not a "real" cloud storage service

Second.. What??? Does the sync traffic go through your network?? (As I understood, it is on my hard drive in my network, and sync goes directly through the network, not circulating through your network... that would be a HUGE privacy issue??). Of course DNS queries would cause some traffic (assuming that tonidoid address is used), but not that much unless your sync software is really stupid (and do DNS query for every network packet or something like that). And if it does it for example for every file, then it's not the size you should limit, than rather the number of files... (rather than checking it periodically before the sync/checking if address has changed if connection seems to be lost etc)

Re: Plug and "Pro"?

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:59 pm
by madhan
Sync uses our relay to work on the WAN, so in that case like remote access, sync also happens via the relay.

Re: Plug and "Pro"?

Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:00 am
by ByteHeaven
Ah, ok.. So relay trafick goes through your network (it makes sense). But when relay is disabeled, trafic should be direct connection? In that case, you could have resizeable size for the sync available when relay is disabled. And if trafick goes through your network on wan even when relay is disabled that would be quite huge privacy issue (on top of that you let us understand in documentation, privacy statement etc. That connections are direct). And that probably is a big seller for you against the free online services (trust issues, do not spoil that) where user do not know who access the data..

So basically limitaion of sync size is quite artificial when relay is disabled.. In that case sync is just a really nice direct connection method to move the files between several devices and access them anywhere. As mentioned above, you cannot compare size and feature to online cloud spaces, because in this case backup and space is not provised by you, but instead by us, the customers ourselves.

I can understand that you need and want to make profit, but trying to create artificial limits to create different levels of product and there treating customers allready payed to you (and maybe willing to pay again... Thus, buy a new plug when oldone fries) as "second stage customers" instead "top stage customers" probably just drives them away and leaves you too easily to play with free users.. and rather than you pricing up the software features for monthly payment (I do not believe it will workout... Too many free options available to compete) You should price up relay service (and possible future online backup room etc, if you will provide such some time, and ofc have free software little bit lower in features and have a payed version of software). And have the order in customer levels like free, payed software, buy the whole system with the plug.. Thus, customers buying the plug payes you the most and you probably do not want to alianate them ;)

Re: Plug and "Pro"?

Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:56 am
by agrajag
I think ByteHaven is right. You have no reason to limit the Sync-Traffic when your relay-service is not used. This is just a unfair way to generate some Money for nothing.

And where is the benefit for plug users in the Pro Version????
All features you're selling with pro are allready included in the Plug, except of limitation for the Sync-App. So what are Plug-users paying for??? Only for the artifial limits??? And when they don't use your relay thy're paying for .... Just nothing.
I also understand that you want to make profit, but this is a very bad way.

Why don't you sell a bundle with a sync-App with no limitation and a ssl license for Plug-Users who don't want use the relay?
And also you should decrease th Price for the Pro Version for the Plug-users, because they're getting less from the "pro". In pro there a 3 Features you've to Pay for, but the Plug-users are getting only 1 of thes, because they allready have the other 2. So they should only pay 1/3 of the price (and only, if they use your rellay!).

So paying for Something will be OK, But the Price should be fair. And this what you're now offering is only fair for the non-Plug-users, but plug-users are the lossers in this concept.

Re: Plug and "Pro"?

Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:02 pm
by tonido4umadmin

In any software business, developers are the major cost more than the bandwidth and servers. Personal cloud sync is totally a new feature and it took 1.5-2 years and 7 developers to build it. We want to improve the sync app in every release and make the app as the best in category as we move along - that means continuous deployment of devs.

Essentially we are charging for a new app - Sync. Also from our analysis, Plug buyers use more bandwidth and support resource than users who are using Tonido in their computers. That is the reason for the pricing. Also we think 29.99/year is very nominal for the value it provides.

We think charging for software is actually a good thing for both the customers and Tonido. It shows we are serious about Tonido's business. Users who pay for the software also understand the value it provides and offer good feedback. We want to make Tonido a sustainable business that will allow development of new, rock solid and innovative features to the customers and improve the platform.

Without nominal charges, we cannot really do that.We hope you understand our position.

Tonido team

Re: Plug and "Pro"?

Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:38 pm
by agrajag
Read my Answer here:

Re: Plug and "Pro"?

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:02 pm
by honnoric
As with many Tonidoplug users I am very keen to keep my data "private" and accessible - so am very happy with Sync as a usable and reliable solution.
And I am happy to pay the special offer price to get the volume of data syncing that I need (realistically about 20GB).

But I am not happy to pay whatever Codelathe choose to charge for subsequent years.

If you charge me a one-off fee to raise the 2GB limit to 50GB (or any other sensible figure) then I know where I stand and will shell out the cash straight away.
If you charge me for running significant volumes through your servers then again, I will pay for what I use (and will look for ways to minimize that).

But I will not sign up for a service with an open-ended cost - especially one as sensitive as looking after my data.

Please rethink your revenue model for Sync - I really want the Tonidoplug to continue to develop into my personal cloud - but that will not be the case with such a clumsy pricing model.

That said, the Tonidoplug is a fantastic piece of work - congratulations on what you have achieved so far.

Re: Plug and "Pro"?

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:37 pm
by madhan
Thanks for the feedback. We take into account all user feedback and comments will see if we can refine this model going forward.